Announcer: You are listening to WNDN, the voice of central New Mexico. For the next hour we present another in our series of interviews with local community leaders. We hope you enjoy the show.

Inanna: Good afternoon and welcome to Tomanha Talk Time. I am Inanna of Myss Terrie's Forum News Service and my guest today is Okaasan of La Casa. Welcome to the show, Okaasan.

Okaasan: Thank you for having me, Inanna. It is great honor to be invited.

Inanna: I am happy you accepted our invitation. Let's get started, shall we? Can you explain to our listeners about La Casa and the corporation that runs it, the Friends of the Fissure?

Okaasan: Sure. First, I would say that the Friends of the Fissure, although now a corporation, was not started with that intent. The FoF evolved after the discovery of the ruined city beneath the desert. La Casa was here long before that.

Inanna: How old is La Casa?

Okaasan: The land is part of a 16th century title held by Franciscan monks. In 1800 they built a mission on the site, with the goal of converting the local tribes to Catholicism. You can still see the monastic elements although the building is now a private home. The wide arched porch runs completely around the house so the monks could walk for exercise shaded from the sun. The porch is one of La Casa's most distinctive features. Also, the center chapel. You can see the tall vaulted ceiling with the small bell tower at the top. On the first floor was a small foyer -- which might have held a baptismal font -- and behind the foyer were doors that led into the chapel behind. The chapel divides the house into two wings, east and west.

Inanna: Is the chapel still used as a church?

Okaasan: (she chuckles softly) Not in a long time, Inanna. The chapel was deconsecrated long ago and is now being used as a living room. I suppose you could say there is still worship there because that is where we keep our big screen television, computers and gaming consoles.

Inanna: I have seen a lot of TVs treated like altars. (laughs with Okaasan) Tell us about the rest of the house.

Okaasan: To the left of the foyer is the old refectory -- still being used as a dining room and behind that is the kitchen -- now thoroughly modern, of course. The original kitchen would have been detached for safety reasons, but was incorporated into the main structure in the early 20th century. To the right of the foyer are a couple of small offices and behind them was the chapter house, which we use it as a library.

Inanna: How many bedrooms are there?

Okaasan: Originally there were thirty-eight all on the second floor, divided by the central chapel. Each side had its own stairs down into the foyer. There were nine rooms on each side of the central corridor, so eighteen in each wing of the house, plus a larger room on the end of each wing.

Inanna: Wow, that's a lot of bedrooms.

Okaasan: The monastic cells were tiny, and remained so during the house's long use as a school. Each room had a narrow cot and a small clothespress -- like a closet. When the monks were there each had a kneeler for prayers. During the school years these were replaced with a small desk and a straight-back chair. The professed monks stayed in the east wing with the abbot in the larger end room. The west wing was reserved for novices with their superior in the room on the end.

Inanna: Were there bedrooms above the chapel?

Okaasan:Most of that space was used for storage, but after the chapel was deconsecrated there were more bedrooms put in there as well. Right now there are four regular rooms and one large room.

Inanna: So how long was it a monastery?

Okaasan: About thirty years. With the influx of Americans, meaning the rest of the Europeans -- and the resistance of the tribes to conversion --, the mission failed in its -- ah, mission, and the monks returned to their mother house in Mexico. Over the next century the building was used most often as a school -- a boarding school for white boys, a finishing school for ranchers' daughters, and later as a government school for Indian children. The teachers stayed in the bedrooms on each end of the upper floor and the children were packed in, two per room by installing bunk beds. The boys were kept in the west end and the girls in the east end. Downstairs, the children ate in the refectory and had classes in the old chapter room.

Inanna: I gather there have been more renovations since that time.

Okaasan: The government school shut down during the first world war, and the house was bought by a man who turned it into a hotel. The chapel was deconsecrated and he used it as a dance floor and served booze where the altar had been. The dining room was used as a restaurant and the chapter house became a gentleman's smoking lounge. Upstairs he combined cells to make larger rooms, each with an adjacent private bathroom. The end room to the east he kept for himself and the end room to the west became the "bridal suite" -- not that it saw all that much action during the 20s.

Inanna: So that reduced the bedrooms to --

Okaasan: Eighteen regular rooms and three larger rooms reserved for staff members.

Inanna: Was it still a hotel when the current family purchased it?

Okaasan: Not exactly. The hotel never cleared a profit -- too much in the middle of nowhere New Mexico, so it fell on hard times. It was far more successful as a brothel during the Depression. (Inanna and Okaasan laugh). Then the house was empty for a few years during the second world war before being purchased by Dr. Richard Donnelly during the mid-1940s.

Inanna: He was a professor of archeology, wasn't he?

Okaasan: Yes, he was. He came out here with his wife Sarah to teach at the University of New Mexico. They had one child, a daughter named Margaret. Because the reservation schools were poorly run, Sarah decided to educate Margaret at home and at the same time she taught tribal children whose parents did not like the reservation schools either.

Inanna: So La Casa became a school again. Was Mrs. Donnelly a trained teacher?

Okaasan: Sarah Donnelly had a degree in English Literature and another in Social Studies -- history and geography -- so she was well-qualified to teach. Of course, it was not easy at first to get the tribe behind the effort. Those who were grandparents at the time Sarah put forth her curriculum had once been students in the government school. It had left them bitter and it took a lot of persuading to get even one family to surrender a child into they knew not what. Fortunately a neighbor lady named Marie Nez intervened on Sarah's behalf and offered her services as a teacher of D'ni language and customs.

Inanna: So, this was a very far-sighted view of education.

Okaasan: For the time, it was. Sarah would bring in guest teachers, including tribal elders who told stories. Then she got a visiting lecturer at UNM -- an Irish seannachie -- to tell the children stories in Gaelic, which his assistant translated. And she didn't forget about religion, but again it was a balanced affair. Local shamens taught about native faiths, a Rabbi talked about Judaism, and a Catholic priest explained the basis of Christianity -- not as preachers, but as teachers.

Inanna: And did Professor Donnelly help out?

Okaasan: He did, indeed. Dr. Donnelly would use the days when he was not lecturing at UNM to teach math and science. When the children were older he showed them how archaeologists work, by doing a test dig in the back yard. Sarah Donnelly did an excellent job by using the resources she had available so the children learned about both European and Diné culture.

Inanna: Excuse me. Diné ?

Okaasan: The Navajo word for "Navajo" -- although strictly speaking it means "people." Most tribal names actually mean "people" or sometimes with a descriptor, like "people of the big water."

Inanna: I thought most of the tribal people here were Apache or Hopi.

Okaasan:They are. The Navajo are here because of the school. The government took children from throughout the southwest . In time many of their parents abandoned their tribal lands and came here to be closer to their children even though no contact was permitted. Over time they formed a small tight-knit community centered around La Casa.

Inanna: How did Mrs. Donnelly change the house back into a school and how did the locals feel about sending their children ther? I mean, considering the reputation that white-run schools have amongst the tribal population.

Okaasan:La Casa was not refitted as a school. It remained a private home, but Sarah made use of the same first floor rooms as did the previous teachers. Her outreach program was very thoughtfully presented, with full acknowledgment of sins in the past. In time, many locals, including the Navajo, sent their children to La Casa and Margaret had lots of friends growing up out here.

Inanna: Did Sarah charge for the schooling?

Okaasan: Never. Oh, I think she wanted the children to bring their own lunches and the elders provided materials that were unique to the tribe, but Sarah came from a wealthy family. Richard had a good job. They were not hurting for money.

Inanna: And then Sarah died. Suddenly -- I recall from my reading.

Okaasan: Yes, she had an aneurysm when she was only 46. Margaret was just about to start college, but stayed home to help her father cope with the loss. Increasingly, Margaret began to depend on a neighboring couple, Marie Nez and her husband Joseph Calling Bird for support and guidance. Marie is Navajo. Joseph was a Cherokee medicine man. They taught Margaret even more of the native ways.

Inanna: Dr. Donnelly did not live much longer either.

Okaasan: Depression, overwork and a lifelong habit of chain smoking. He died of lung cancer in 1968.

Inanna: Is that when Margaret changed her name?

Okaasan: About then, yes. The Calling Birds "adopted" her, and gave her a new name -- KoHama Diné. She never returned to school. For her, life was her university. She got involved with the 60s counter-culture and opened the house to people passing through.

Inanna: This would be La Casa's time as a hippie commune. Is that when you came here?

Okaasan: I got here a little later -- summer of 1970. The place was already filled with folks looking for a safe haven. Some of the men came here to hide from the draft. Others were here for the peyote and the marijuana. And there were the idealists who thought that living with the tribal people would give them some special insight into the workings of the world. It was a very mixed bunch.

Inanna: And you?

Okaasan: Oh, I was here for all of the above, except the draft, of course. My given name is Cindy Louise Alexander and I grew up in Little Rock, Arkansas. I went to Kent State and was just finishing out my freshman year when the Ohio National Guard showed up in May of 1970.

Inanna: You were on campus during the riot?

Okaasan: I was. The "riot" was mostly over, of course. I had been with the folks in the bars on Water Street when the ROTC building was torched. By Monday morning most of us were just going about our business again, going to classes, getting ready for finals. Then the Guard opened fire and all hell broke loose --again. Kent State closed and most of us retreated to another nearby college called Hiram. My parents wanted me to come back to Little Rock and go to school there, but some of the folks had a van and were driving out to California. Somewhere between Hiram, Ohio and Haight-Ashbury I got side-tracked and ended up here.

Inanna: And you have been here ever since?

Okaasan: Yes, indeed. KoHama and I became best friends. Soul sisters, I guess. Oh, we had our boyfriends. I had a baby boy, but he grew up, got married and moved away. I see him once in awhile. But for the last 38 years I have made La Casa my home.

Inanna: I know La Casa has been registered on the Federal List of Historic Homes, and is now a licensed bed and breakfast. How did the house evolve in the years after the commune closed?

Okaasan: We went through a long slow patch for a decade or so, Inanna. The hippies grew up and moved on. The world outside got more conservative. For awhile it was just me and KoHama. She had inherited money from her maternal grandfather so that was never an issue. We continued to grow our own vegetables and started making crafts. We sold our produce and products at the community market, and we did what we could to help on the reservation -- teaching the children, assisting women in childbirth, all that fine earth mother stuff we believed in from the 60s. Everything changed in 1987 when John Loftin showed up and found the way into the Cavern. Not long after he brought Elias Zandi. By the early 1990s there was a steady stream of interested parties showing up here.

Inanna: I believe I read somewhere that there is a theory espoused by your group on why it took so long for URU to be discovered. Please tell our listeners about that.

Okaasan: The Navajo have strong beliefs, especially about any place associated with death. The local people would never go anywhere near the Cleft because they believe the place is haunted by chindi, evil spirits that can make people sick, even die. The tribal people have stayed away from the Cleft ever since Ana returned from her life in URU. It is also possible that there have been sightings of Bahro there and that would only have confirmed what had been handed down through oral tradition. Things did not get better in the Navajo view when the Cavern was discovered. Bad enough that an entire civilization was destroyed. Worse that Ana buried her daughter-in-law at the Cleft, but ever since exploration started there have been deaths associated with URU -- Loftin, Zandi, Phil Henderson --

Inanna: He turned up alive.

Okaasan: I know, but he was considered dead for several years. And then there was that accident last May when the two girls were killed. Around here it does not take much to spook the Navajo, and URU has more than enough history with death to keep them away.

Inanna: Thank you. I think that makes a lot of sense and helps us to understand more of the Cleft's surface history. I know that Zandi bought up as much land around the Cleft as he could. Did he want to buy La Casa?

Okaasan: Yes, he tried on several occasions, but KoHama wouldn't budge. So Elias started -- well, wooing her. He took her to see the Cavern and explained to her what he knew about the people who had lived there, the D'ni. She was very interested, but still wouldn't sell her property.

Inanna: I thought she and Zandi had some sort of affair.

Okaasan: Not something I like to talk about in public, Inanna. I will say that KoHama and Elias became very good friends and had a great respect for one another. It was at Zandi's suggestion that KoHama changed her name to KoHama niDni -- the Irish ni meaning "daughter," so "daughter of D'ni." He could be a real charmer. Ko was devastated when he died, and has never really recovered. She has had so much loss in her life. Anyway, I don't think we should be discussing her private matters. Let's leave it at that.

Inanna: Understood. So what happened next?

Okaasan: More people started coming to the area. Some were brought here by Loftin and Zandi, but later on folks just showed up. Because the town is so far away and there are few amenities out here, KoHama and I did the neighborly thing and opened La Casa to guests. Mostly they needed a real bed, a decent meal and a hot bath. When they offered to pay to stay, La Casa became a B&B.

Inanna: What is the Order of the Friends of the Fissure and how did it get started?

Okaasan: KoHama started FoF not long after Zandi died. It was a philosophical group that banded together to influence the course of the restoration. To be honest, KoHama was never comfortable with some of the plans presented for the future of the Cavern. The D'ni Restoration Foundation, later called the D'ni Restoration Council -- the DRC -- again made a pitch to buy La Casa, but gave up when we showed them the documents of incorporation for the FoF and Dr. Donnelly's will. La Casa can never be sold or sub-divided. When KoHama dies the property will be left to the FoF. Should the FoF cease to exist, the property has to be given to the New Mexico Historical Society with the funds to maintain it.

Inanna: I see. In what way does the FoF try to influence the restoration?

Okaasan: KoHama founded FoF to protect La Casa and that was all she wanted to do as far as influencing the restoration. She knew that Zandi would not try to develop the adjacent land, but she was not sure what his successors might do. Once she had secured her property -- and that of her neighbors, the Calling Birds -- she left the area and did not return for ten years. I was left in charge and have run FoF for most of its history. We have avoided any direct confrontation with the DRC, and have stuck mostly with study and exploration. Many in the Order are devout Yeesha followers. They want URU to become whatever Yeesha directs and much of our time is spent trying to divine her will as shown in her imager messages, in the ancient texts, in the journals of Atrus and his friend the Stranger.

Inanna: So, FoF is not political.

Okaasan: Not at all. In fact, many in the Order take a Vow of Silence and do not speak in public. We made exceptions for the bevin we founded, and when helping others -- and obviously, here on the radio -- but as a founding principle, FoF has found that idle gossip and rumors are like a cancer in any community. We all have opinions and beliefs, of course, and in FoF all have a voice and a right to believe as they wish, but we are careful what we say when we do not know who is listening. And thoughtful silence is very Navajo. It is considered polite to think before you speak, to pause after listening to another's words.

Inanna: I understand that KoHama returned to La Casa last fall after her long absence. What motivated her return?

Okaasan: I did. I have visited her regularly over the years and she returned once -- briefly -- when Joseph Calling Bird died. But las October, I asked KoHama to return to stay -- at least for awhile. I guess that request was politically motivated. The DRC had just established the five guilds and many of our Order were concerned that history might repeat itself.

Inanna: The original guilds having been an integral part of the destruction of the D'ni?

Okaasan: That and the fact that guilds in human history have been frought with monopolistic structures, restriction of information and training to those in the guilds, and issues involving haves and have-nots. I have been pleased to see that our fears have so far been unfounded. The guilds have proven themselves worthwhile and those who are in the guilds have been watchful of the dangers that attached to both human and D'ni guilds of old.

Inanna: I am glad to hear that. So what does the future hold for La Casa and the FoF?

Okaasan: Well, I suppose the glory days are gone again -- at least for awhile. La Casa had a booming business during the time called Prologue, then the funding ran out and the Cavern closed. Business picked up again in October 2006 and remained steady until April 10th of this year when the funds again ran out. We have suspended our three times weekly shuttle bus runs to the Gallup and Albuquerque airports, and our rental car return service has also closed down. Most of the explorers have packed up and gone home, although we still have a few guests at La Casa -- usually the ones who do not know what to do now. They can not return to their reltos and bevins, but neither do they want to go to their surface homes. I have heard that some actually sold their property and quit their jobs, expecting to remain in URU for the rest of their lives. For them La Casa's doors are always open.

Inanna: Well, that's our time. I want to thank Okaasan of La Casa Bed &Breakfast for being my guest today. You have been listening to the Tomanha Talk Time. I am Inanna of Myss Terrie's Forum News Service. Thank you for listening and have a good day.

Announcer: You are listening to WNDN, the voice of central New Mexico, listening to Tim Larkin's hit tune, Airstream. Stay tuned for news and weather on the hour.